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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Ask Amy&#8221; Falls Short</title>
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	<description>Women, Children, Sex, Violence: Outcry, Analysis, Discussion</description>
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		<title>By: rcanaff</title>
		<link>http://rogercanaff.com/site/2009/12/hello-world/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>rcanaff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rogercanaff.com/site/?p=1#comment-5</guid>
		<description>Molly, as the person who taught me how to prosecute sex crimes, it&#039;s fitting and greatly welcomed that you&#039;re the first person to post a comment here.  

I agree with you in many respects.  First, Victim? did not seek confidential advice, and Amy Dickinson is not obliged to provide it.  Second, we are all responsible to some extent for our own personal safety, and I agree that women and all potential victims of any crime should be taught to be vigilant and to use good judgment.  This includes potential victims of sex crimes.  There are certainly things women (and men) can and should do to reduce their risk of being victimized.  

I remember when John Jay College of Criminal Justice Student Imette Guillen was murdered in 2006- I was an ADA in the Bronx at the time.  One of the things that struck my friends and I (many of whom grew up in the city) was that this young woman&#039;s friend had apparently left her near the bar outside of which she was abducted and killed sometime after 4:00 a.m.  The friend, wanting to leave when Imette wanted to stay, apparently left her alone and drunk on a Soho street.  Soho is a great neighborhood and not known for much violent crime, but New York is not Disneyland- despite the amazing reduction in crime since the 80&#039;s.  I can only imagine what her friend is still going through with regard to their decisions that night, and I don&#039;t mean to pick on her.  The point is that, in the New York we grew up in (late 70&#039;s, early 80&#039;s) it would have been unthinkable for a young woman to be left by a friend alone, particularly after midnight and after drinking.  The city was way too dangerous and we knew it.  Now, people have been lulled into a false sense of security in places like New York, and in many other environments as well.  

Likewise, I&#039;ve seen well intentioned efforts from anti sexual assault groups that do things like distribute bar napkins in social spots to warm women of the danger of &#039;date rape drugs.&#039;  That&#039;s noble, but alcohol is by far the most widely and easily wielded &#039;date rape drug.&#039;  Potential victims also need to be reminded that drinking to serious excess can  compromise their ability to protect themselves as well.  So while a &quot;safe drink&quot; is good thing to be sure of, sometimes &quot;less drinks&quot; are also advisable.  

So I&#039;m not at all against providing sound advice on how to keep oneself safe, even if the advice seems pedantic or even harsh at times.  But still- advice like that should be meted out sincerely, carefully and in measured tones to a victim of sexual assault (even a questioning victim) no matter what the circumstances.  

My quarrel with Ms. Dickinson is more about the dangerously inaccurate assertions she made regarding sexual violence and the appropriate response to it.  Dickinson conflates &quot;unwise&quot; sexual contact with &quot;unwanted&quot; sexual contact, as if making a mistake and engaging in perhaps foolish but consensual sex is the same thing as being forced into sex in a semi-conscious state.  This is particularly dangerous because it invites a very common and dangerous misconception about non-stranger rape:  That misunderstandings, fueled by alcohol, can produce tragic consequences to two otherwise well-intentioned people.  It&#039;s very tempting, especially for jurors, to write off a rape as a failure of communication- particularly when the rapist is a clean cut, college kid who the jurors can identify with.  However, good and recent research suggests that rape is not the product of a misunderstanding or some unplanned cocktail of lust and liquor on the part of an otherwise good guy.  Rather, in most cases, rapists like the one described by Victim? plan and premeditate their attacks, and use alcohol as a weapon.  I obviously can&#039;t say for sure, but I&#039;d be willing to bet that the guy in her case knew exactly what he was doing, has done it before and will do it again.  I&#039;m quite sure, if I&#039;m right, that he doesn&#039;t consider himself a rapist and would be surprised if Victim? were ever to report him.  I&#039;m sure he doesn&#039;t suffer consequences for how he views his own sexuality and those of his victims.  But the fact is, most likely, he&#039;s disordered, cruel, and will scar the lives of many other women before he&#039;s through.  Or before someone finally reports the case and it falls into the hands of a good investigation/prosecution/advocacy team. 

The characteristics that most rapists share (this guy also, I&#039;d bet) are why I take issue with Amy&#039;s suggestion to 1) consider how drunk he was, and 2) to involve him in the process of determining &quot;what happened.&quot;  He knows what happened.  He meant for it to happen.  He won&#039;t be enlightened by a heart to heart with the person he raped.  She&#039;s nothing to him other than another dull conquest.  She, however, may very well be undermined in her efforts to heal herself and feel whole again when she&#039;s subjected, in some sort of mediation environment, to whatever b.s. he&#039;ll spew about how she really was perfectly fine and he really was-despite her intuition, memory and sense of right and wrong- a good guy.  

Thanks again, Molly, for responding.  My very best wishes for a great college career to Irv&#039;s lovely daughter, btw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Molly, as the person who taught me how to prosecute sex crimes, it&#8217;s fitting and greatly welcomed that you&#8217;re the first person to post a comment here.  </p>
<p>I agree with you in many respects.  First, Victim? did not seek confidential advice, and Amy Dickinson is not obliged to provide it.  Second, we are all responsible to some extent for our own personal safety, and I agree that women and all potential victims of any crime should be taught to be vigilant and to use good judgment.  This includes potential victims of sex crimes.  There are certainly things women (and men) can and should do to reduce their risk of being victimized.  </p>
<p>I remember when John Jay College of Criminal Justice Student Imette Guillen was murdered in 2006- I was an ADA in the Bronx at the time.  One of the things that struck my friends and I (many of whom grew up in the city) was that this young woman&#8217;s friend had apparently left her near the bar outside of which she was abducted and killed sometime after 4:00 a.m.  The friend, wanting to leave when Imette wanted to stay, apparently left her alone and drunk on a Soho street.  Soho is a great neighborhood and not known for much violent crime, but New York is not Disneyland- despite the amazing reduction in crime since the 80&#8217;s.  I can only imagine what her friend is still going through with regard to their decisions that night, and I don&#8217;t mean to pick on her.  The point is that, in the New York we grew up in (late 70&#8217;s, early 80&#8217;s) it would have been unthinkable for a young woman to be left by a friend alone, particularly after midnight and after drinking.  The city was way too dangerous and we knew it.  Now, people have been lulled into a false sense of security in places like New York, and in many other environments as well.  </p>
<p>Likewise, I&#8217;ve seen well intentioned efforts from anti sexual assault groups that do things like distribute bar napkins in social spots to warm women of the danger of &#8216;date rape drugs.&#8217;  That&#8217;s noble, but alcohol is by far the most widely and easily wielded &#8216;date rape drug.&#8217;  Potential victims also need to be reminded that drinking to serious excess can  compromise their ability to protect themselves as well.  So while a &#8220;safe drink&#8221; is good thing to be sure of, sometimes &#8220;less drinks&#8221; are also advisable.  </p>
<p>So I&#8217;m not at all against providing sound advice on how to keep oneself safe, even if the advice seems pedantic or even harsh at times.  But still- advice like that should be meted out sincerely, carefully and in measured tones to a victim of sexual assault (even a questioning victim) no matter what the circumstances.  </p>
<p>My quarrel with Ms. Dickinson is more about the dangerously inaccurate assertions she made regarding sexual violence and the appropriate response to it.  Dickinson conflates &#8220;unwise&#8221; sexual contact with &#8220;unwanted&#8221; sexual contact, as if making a mistake and engaging in perhaps foolish but consensual sex is the same thing as being forced into sex in a semi-conscious state.  This is particularly dangerous because it invites a very common and dangerous misconception about non-stranger rape:  That misunderstandings, fueled by alcohol, can produce tragic consequences to two otherwise well-intentioned people.  It&#8217;s very tempting, especially for jurors, to write off a rape as a failure of communication- particularly when the rapist is a clean cut, college kid who the jurors can identify with.  However, good and recent research suggests that rape is not the product of a misunderstanding or some unplanned cocktail of lust and liquor on the part of an otherwise good guy.  Rather, in most cases, rapists like the one described by Victim? plan and premeditate their attacks, and use alcohol as a weapon.  I obviously can&#8217;t say for sure, but I&#8217;d be willing to bet that the guy in her case knew exactly what he was doing, has done it before and will do it again.  I&#8217;m quite sure, if I&#8217;m right, that he doesn&#8217;t consider himself a rapist and would be surprised if Victim? were ever to report him.  I&#8217;m sure he doesn&#8217;t suffer consequences for how he views his own sexuality and those of his victims.  But the fact is, most likely, he&#8217;s disordered, cruel, and will scar the lives of many other women before he&#8217;s through.  Or before someone finally reports the case and it falls into the hands of a good investigation/prosecution/advocacy team. </p>
<p>The characteristics that most rapists share (this guy also, I&#8217;d bet) are why I take issue with Amy&#8217;s suggestion to 1) consider how drunk he was, and 2) to involve him in the process of determining &#8220;what happened.&#8221;  He knows what happened.  He meant for it to happen.  He won&#8217;t be enlightened by a heart to heart with the person he raped.  She&#8217;s nothing to him other than another dull conquest.  She, however, may very well be undermined in her efforts to heal herself and feel whole again when she&#8217;s subjected, in some sort of mediation environment, to whatever b.s. he&#8217;ll spew about how she really was perfectly fine and he really was-despite her intuition, memory and sense of right and wrong- a good guy.  </p>
<p>Thanks again, Molly, for responding.  My very best wishes for a great college career to Irv&#8217;s lovely daughter, btw.</p>
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		<title>By: Molly Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://rogercanaff.com/site/2009/12/hello-world/comment-page-1/#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>Molly Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 20:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rogercanaff.com/site/?p=1#comment-2</guid>
		<description>Roger, while I agree with many of your criticisms of Amy&#039;s response, I&#039;d like to play devil&#039;s advocate in a few respects.  &quot;Victim?&quot; wrote into a widely read publication for advice about a situation that is unfortunately all too common.  Amy isn&#039;t giving confidential advice in her responses, but is writing a response that will be read by not only the person who posed the question but also by many other readers. Many of these readers may find themselves in the same situation describd by &quot;Victim?&quot; or may have sisters, daughters, cousins, nieces or friends who may confront the same situation.  Amy is absolutely right to encourage her readers to avoid the situation &quot;Victim?&quot; put herself in.  What&#039;s wrong with people using good judgment to avoid their own victimization?  I&#039;m not just talking about acquaintance rape situations, but any situation that may lead one to fall victim to crime.  People leave valuables visible in their cars - they get stolen.  People stagger out of bars late at night and walk alone to their cars - they get robbed.  People leave their doors unlocked - their homes get burglarized.  But it&#039;s taboo to talk to young women about how to avoid sexual victimization?  It shouldn&#039;t be.  As a woman who has a step-daughter who will be a freshman in college in 8 months, I certainly hope she would read &quot;Victim?&quot;&#039;s inquiry and Amy&#039;s response and take a lesson from it:  first and foremost, don&#039;t get drunk at a party and separate from your friends! And second, don&#039;t get drunk and go into a bedroom w/ a strange male.  Every opportunity the media has to get that message out should be taken, not avoided.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger, while I agree with many of your criticisms of Amy&#8217;s response, I&#8217;d like to play devil&#8217;s advocate in a few respects.  &#8220;Victim?&#8221; wrote into a widely read publication for advice about a situation that is unfortunately all too common.  Amy isn&#8217;t giving confidential advice in her responses, but is writing a response that will be read by not only the person who posed the question but also by many other readers. Many of these readers may find themselves in the same situation describd by &#8220;Victim?&#8221; or may have sisters, daughters, cousins, nieces or friends who may confront the same situation.  Amy is absolutely right to encourage her readers to avoid the situation &#8220;Victim?&#8221; put herself in.  What&#8217;s wrong with people using good judgment to avoid their own victimization?  I&#8217;m not just talking about acquaintance rape situations, but any situation that may lead one to fall victim to crime.  People leave valuables visible in their cars &#8211; they get stolen.  People stagger out of bars late at night and walk alone to their cars &#8211; they get robbed.  People leave their doors unlocked &#8211; their homes get burglarized.  But it&#8217;s taboo to talk to young women about how to avoid sexual victimization?  It shouldn&#8217;t be.  As a woman who has a step-daughter who will be a freshman in college in 8 months, I certainly hope she would read &#8220;Victim?&#8221;&#8217;s inquiry and Amy&#8217;s response and take a lesson from it:  first and foremost, don&#8217;t get drunk at a party and separate from your friends! And second, don&#8217;t get drunk and go into a bedroom w/ a strange male.  Every opportunity the media has to get that message out should be taken, not avoided.</p>
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